Official Luthiers Forum!

Thanks for the compliment hesh .I am grateful to be able to share what I know. FWIW I am also headed down a similiar path.I have been looking to relocate our disorganized shop, and am in the process of relocating the shop to a new location where we can serve the public.I am 100% with you on the instruments.Good for you to stick up for some individuality in gtr making.Wanting or desiring to be a clone gtr maker while admirable as a newbie gets vy old and stale as one gets older and feels the need or desire to be an artisan / craftsman or whatever, that is part of the essence of looking at other peoples gtr/string work and knowing they put a part of themselves into that work , instead of the plastic looking factory instruments .Which IMHO have no soul. On the health care ,I totally disagree with you, not because of I don/t feel folks should get healthcare. But because of my own personal experiences with the healthcare system in Canada when we lived there, and fast forward to america.Where even though we had to pay way more $$$$ we got much better care especially for major medical problems. My wife is in the medical field.While I feel and know that healthcare has to change in the usa. The path we are currently on will create a gigantic problem , which will implode down the road on it/s own volition. Perhaps then we will hopefully get some type of I repeat Positive change. I will now descend from my soapbox and finish the desert ironwood nut I was working on for my new OZ style pineapple tenor uke.Thanks.

Hi Hesh! Pardon my ignorance... do you mean Frank Ford's site frets.com?

touchez todd

Affordable...Care...Act.

One out of those three is all I got.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

No problem Ernie you and I can disagree but be warned - I still like you anyway! I'm also looking forward to seeing your OZ style pineapple tenor uke when you post pics. Regarding the Canadian system for health care we disagree but let's face it too what the US did is nothing like what the Canadians do and that is the problem that about 16% of us here in the states have with the ACA.... Insurance companies are evil..... By the way aren't you an Israeli? I think that I recall reading this some time back. I'm a dual national with Israeli being my other country and Israel has socialized medicine and it works for them, no?

Ringo!!! Hope all is well with you my friend and yes I mean Frank's excellent site FRETS.Net. I posted my thoughts there and already a couple of other Luthiers have indicated that this is huge for them too. Some are in disbelief as to pricing and were directed to get pricing on their own so that they can see what the buzz is all about.

Although again off topic here perhaps a short diversion from a poorly veiled attempt to gin up some new students for instruction without paying to be a sponsor may be welcome to some, perhaps not.

Regarding other people's money one does have to wonder how one who spent decades on the public payroll and then a defense contractor who's primary client is the US government, or, more specifically we "other people and our money" can be upset about where their own money goes. Go figure.... Regardless thank you for your service and truth be known I never minded paying for it either....

Anyway it's getting difficult for me to continue to be my very nice self since requests to avoid politics were ignored but I do continue to miss what this forum once was before it was dominated by a very few folks who can't play well with others.... So I'll take my leave once again until, of course I feel the urge to weigh-in once again and try to follow one of the two rules that I learned when I joined this forum years ago and it was my very first ever forum participation. Those two rules were/are 1) I do not have the right, regardless of provocation, to pee in the collective canteen. And 2) I/we are guests here of our host and as such it's classless to enjoy the hospitality of another and ignore their simple requests and rules such as not getting political.

And oh yeah, anyone care to shed some light on why it matters if one is self-taught or not or what ever? Is this a contest? Are some of you better than others? Just wondering....

Ah.... just like old times I post, Stock follows, and then along comes Filippo who never ceases to mind having his nose in Stock's crack..... Not that there is anything wrong with that mind you, to each their own....

Well Filippo I hope that you are doing well and maybe can see your own feet too one of these days.... While you guys have been incrementally ruining the happening that once was the the wonderful forum that the OLF was looks like you are a pro now by your own self-described info under your avatar. Congrats bro, had I known that it was as easy as building a few guitars and repairing some for your worship bros I would have taken that path too.

Anyway it's political to imply that money spent in say the search for WMD that never were there or that infamous war on drugs down south that wasted three trillion dollars to date of, you guessed it, other people's money and gave Stock someone to shoot at while drawing smiley faces on his targets was less wasteful than say food stamps that feed a kid so that he/she has a shot at learning something in school. What a narrow and misguided view. At the very least for you government haters who have yet to leave the teat of government one way or another... would it not be more balanced to imply that any government spending is government waste? I mean hell what's the difference, you believe that others benefit from your money and tax dollars but you don't bat an eye at the costs of killing others somewhere else or what you cost us all in service to federal agencies....

Anyway Filippo, bro, nice to see that you have come so very far with your development as a Loofier with only dis hear forum (attribution to Duh Padma), Stock and deli sandwiches, perhaps many, many deli sandwiches.... and an association with that other guy you mention from time to time who I can't remember his name at present.

I spent three decades working defense programs and have the certificates of appreciation from Lockheed/Martin, Raytheon, and a plethora of others to prove it but my take on waste in federal spending is vastly different than yours. One civilian program in particular, Medicare, and another for example, social security seem to be well liked and work pretty well. But that expensive war on drugs never got us anywhere now did it beyond some folks to send a fishing net or two to when one is feeling nostalgic for the killing fields south of the border.

Anyway nice to see that your nose is still firmly planted and Stock's crack and it makes me wonder if I still have that penchant for photoshopping images and concepts....

Since you always positioned yourself even when not asked as the smartest guy on the forum you remind me of a joke:

There is a plane flying over the mountains and on board is a priest, a hippy, the richest man in the world, and the smartest man in the world, kind of like you eh, Filippo?

All of a sudden the captain leaves the cabin in a panic and yells at the passengers that the plane is out of control and going to crash and that everyone has to leave now. He grabs a parachute from the wall and jumps out the door.

Now we have the priest, the hippy, the richest man in the world, and the smartest man in the world left but the problem is that there are four and there are only three remaining parachutes on the wall. The richest man in the world grabs a chute and proclaims that the world needs him and he jumps out only to be followed in short order by the smartest man in the world who proclaims that he is the smartest man in the world and as such the world will benefit from his survival and off he goes out the door too.

The priest looks at the hippy and says "my son you are young with your entire life yet to be lived, you take the one remaining chute, I will be fine."

The hippy looks at the priest and says "thanks father but we both will be fine, the smartest man in the world just jumped out the door with my backpack...."

Anyway I hope that you enjoyed the joke and no need to thank me, anytime, anytime.

I'm still having problems, admittedly, following my own rules so I'm out of here for now. But it is hoped that some of you guys stop killing this forum with your crap, self promotion, and attacks on anyone who may know more than you. Folks here are not as dumb as you seem to think and I still get emails nearly every week directing me to see what kind of BS you are up to now. It's a shame what you have done to this wonderful forum and my hope is that ultimately others see you for what you are. There are others who feel as I do, many others who owe a debt of gratitude to Lance and the others who taught us lots here on the OLF. Ultimately any forum is only as good as the community that makes up the forum. Folks who suppress the contributions of others, dominate the discussion, are easily threatened by a real pro who knows far more than you are precisely why the numbers here on this now over ten year old forum have suffered. But you knew all of this didn't you....

Shalom

PS: Filippo ever hear of ZIngermans deli? It's in A2 (Ann Arbor) where our shop is and was once rated the best deli in the US by the NYT. Want me to send you some sandwiches for Hanukah? Maybe I can find some pumpkin ale too for Stock?

Can you be self taught? No! But you can be self educated. I never had a shop class in my life. I went to Catholic school. I first started using hand tools as a kid out of curiosity. My dad wasn't handy at all so no skills were passed from father to son. The guitar repair and building thing came after teaching myself how to play guitar using a basic chord book then learning tunes by ear. Being that we were poor I learned to repair and customize the junker guitars that I picked up cheap at things like yard sales and flea markets. I installed my first Dimarzio humbucker by using a chisel and hammer. The first book on building guitars I ever read was Build Your Own Electric Guitar by Bill Foley. It was really a book on assembling a guitar from ready made parts. My first really good guitar was made using this book. from there I just mimicked what i seen on guitars. I made my first real electric using hand tools and and old jig saw. My first taste of acoustic building was after I found a copy of Cumpianos book in a little how to book store that i passed in center city as I worked as a bike messenger. I picked up a lot of books in that store that taught me various skills. Back then there was no internet.So no OLF to learn from like today. I have never had any hands on lessons from other builders. I never even met another builder to years later. I didn't know there were a lot of others like me. When people ask me how I learned these skills I always say from reading books and trial and error. I never claim that I did it all on my own. I give credit to those authors of those books. The internet today helps enhance that self education....Mike

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Another day, another dollar.

Hesh .I went over to frets.now and gave you my 2 cents worth of opinion about healthcare, as honestly it/s such a loaded topic that would really sidetrack this thread.Man have I seen that happen before here on the OLF. No , I don/t want to piss anyone off either , so will shut up on healthcare opinions .Yes I am Israeli too hesh I have citizenships from 4 countries czechoslovakia, israel , canada, and usa. Both my children are in israel hesh , my son is serving in the IDF, and daughter is teaching english to russian immigrants in ashdod. She speaks russkie. My son told me , that he gets to chose from a pool of 6 plans, he made aliyah. My daughter is insured through our plan and the student organization she is with. I am not familiar with the israeli health care system , but I do know quite a bit abt the canadian one as my wifes family is on w. coast and mine is on the e. coast , plus we have friends still in canada. From my limited knowledge it seems to me that each country has it/s own different style of healthcare.One must actually live there in order to experience it, and know the ins and outs of their countries system. For sure I am no shmexpert. Hesh , If I can be of help let me know ,or PM me and I can give you our cell number. shalom.PS hesh, the oz style pineapple tenor is in the finishing stages in the bsmt. Here are the particulars. Back an sides tamarindo top WRC , neck silver maple headstock face overlay ipe or B. walnut rear overlay e. walnut fingerboard pernambuco with center sripes of persimmon and black locust , brass fret markers. Desert ironwood nut, bridge , pernambuco, with ebony saddle, grover 4n tuners, The top has falcate c braces made with laminated h. mahogany an carbon fiber weave. The bracing design taken from a luthier on the ANZLF. the back has 2 ladder braces of spruce and bottom live back bracing a la gore taken from the gore /gilet book/. The finish is antique rosewood stain with water base filler for tamarind and DIY shellac, followed by thinned tung oil and several coats of cabinet varnish. I wanted to give it an old time look circa 1920/s.I will post in abt 2-3 weeks when it cures

Thanks for the kudos todd for my son who is currently serving in the IDF. and Todd thank you for your service to the usa. It is much appreciated, especially since we are geting close to Nov 11. My service was in canada 6 th battalion canadian grenadier guards, now disbanded. Every one in my family has served in the army since my grandfathers service in the first world war .No I do not glorify war , or military service. Frankly, if not for the bravery of all those who fell we would not be free to be loofiers at all here in . N. america. Or shoot our mouths offon forums to express what we feel .To all the men /women of the forum who have served , my hats off to all of you, and to those that haven/t I am sure that most of them are eternally grateful Thank You.

Looks like Todd thought the pot needed a little stirring here at the old OLF. It certainly worked and brought a few old hands out of the woodwork.

I don’t have anything to add to a question that has no answer except to note that I am certainly glad I took the Charles Fox course back in 2003. It was a wonderful experience and there is no doubt that it shaved years off my learning curve. I always acknowledge his training and am very grateful for that.

To me it just makes sense that if one has a real desire to excel in a profession one would want to take some sort of formal training from someone with recognized credibility.

As Arnt mentioned a few pages back, even after 10 years of serious building and around 60 instruments it seems I am just scratching the surface and that most of what I have learned is how little I actually know. Without the course I think I'd be a lot deeper in the hole.

I’ve developed what I think may be a few original ideas over the years but the vast majority of my techniques are exact copies or variations on things I have seen elsewhere. If I share them publicly I always try to acknowledge where I learned them. I think that is common courtesy and should always be done.

I would say that the truly self-taught luthiers were the original crop of American steel string builders that tried to improve on the factory made guitars of the time and eventually did so in spades with very little information to guide them. Their willingness to share their knowledge, hard earned by years of trial and error, has made what we do possible.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Todd I did my service in MTL in the early 60/s signed on at 17.5 and left abt 2 yrs later.It was during the FLQ crisis.Things were very tense around that time with people being assasinated and armories broken into for ammunition and weapons. We were a light reserve infantry batt. I was the radio operator along with a bunch of other friends.We all got our cdn ham licences at 16. The unit I believe was disbanded and whoever was left was rolled over into the other CGG units.Camp Pettawawa in ontario n. of ottawa was a major training center, one of my high school buddies is now a col or major ret. I convinced him to sign on , and he later moved to toronto ans stayed on reserves and then full time after retiring from airlines. Loofiery is a tough road to hoe ,a journey of many trials and tribulations.But I love the work and have been plugging away at it for a long time. Cheers.

Jesus wept .... ..obviously the heart attack affected the brain as well ...

I believe the correct expression is "a long ROW to hoe." Workign on a road with a hoe, well that just sounds like something the government would do!

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Thanks Todd, I needed a laugh!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Filippo.... Are you sure you read everything? Carefully?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Ha! Where the hell did the last two pages come from?!

Good question!

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Todd Stock, were you an AFSOC guy?

We may have worked together then...I was active duty 1976-2005...